Don't Disciple

Why don't churches disciple?  The quotes under each point are from the articles unless otherwise noted.

The first five reasons are from a series of 9 Marks articles.

• Because they preach cheap grace (9Marks article).

"Cheap grace is the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance, baptism without church discipline. Communion without confession.  Cheap grace is grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ" (Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship, 43 - 44).

• Because they are seeker-sensitive but believer-insensitive (9Marks article).

Churches can become so focused on doing whatever it takes to get those who are not part of the church to come to church that they lose their disciple-making zeal.  "We are desperate for people to enter, and desperate for them to stay."

• Because they are less converted (9Marks article).

"In some large, well-known evangelical churches, you can become a member simply by ticking a box on a welcome card.  There is little or no attempt to examine the person spiritually to try to ascertain that they are truly followers of Christ."     

• Because they are program-dependent (9Marks article)

"A program - however biblically faithful - is no substitute for ongoing, personal discipling."   

"Programs can imply that discipleship is a matter of following the correct 'process' rather than cultivating the correct character."

• Because they are too often ashamed of the gospel and therefore assume the gospel (9Marks article)

"'Growth without the regular, faithful teaching of the gospel is growth without depth.  If we want depth as well as breadth, there's no substitute for gospel-saturated preaching and conversation.'"

 "The deep, wide discipleship we long for in our churches will only come when we stop assuming the gospel, and actually proclaim it."

• Because they don't pray.

In The Praying Church, Paul Miller shares some challenging prayer ideas.  One of the book's guiding principles is "Prayer is not one more activity of the church - it lies at the heart of all the church's ministry." (26) 

• Because they promote "perfection," not sanctification.

Discipleship often doesn't happen because church members want to give the appearance of perfection rather than live out the process of sanctification - sinners growing into the image of Christ through dependence on the Holy Spirit.

Previous Be a Disciple/Make Disciples lessons:

1. Be and Make Introduction - drodgersjr.blogspot.com/2025/12/be-and-make-intro.html
2. Ministry & Missions - drodgersjr.blogspot.com/2025/12/ministry-and-missions.html
3. The Bible and Disciple-making - drodgersjr.blogspot.com/2026/01/bible-and-disciplemaking.html
4. Prayer and Disciple-making - drodgersjr.blogspot.com/2026/01/prayer-and-disciplemaking.html
5. Time and Productivity - drodgersjr.blogspot.com/2026/01/time-and-productivity.html
6. Men and Local Church Ministry - drodgersjr.blogspot.com/2026/01/men-and-local-church-ministry.html
7. Women and Local Church Ministry - drodgersjr.blogspot.com/2026/02/women-and-local-church-ministry.html
8. Congregation, Elders, Deacons, and Deaconesses -  drodgersjr.blogspot.com/2026/02/congregation-elders-deacons-and.html
9. Teaching and Serving Helps - drodgersjr.blogspot.com/2026/02/teaching-and-serving-helps.html

 

God's Faithfulness through Himself, His Word, and His People

 Later today, I will be on a podcast that a friend and member of Trinity, James Wisneski, is part of with my new friend, Andrew Gommesen.

Andrew sent me some questions to prepare me for the time.  The initial title of the podcast is Ministry Musings.  Musings are lengthy, intent considerations.

As I prepared for the interview and considered the definition of musings, I wanted to briefly share some thoughts before and after my time with Andrew and James.

Throughout my time in various areas:  Pittsburgh, PA, Rochester, NY, Santiago, Dominican Republic, Toledo, OH, Scranton, PA, Grand Rapids, MI, and places for short visits, God has been faithful over and over again.   

He has shown Himself faithful in Himself, His Word, and His People.

Through the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross and the empty grave, God has shown His faithfulness to me in my salvation.   

Through countless Bible-teaching opportunities I have been part of - from one-to-one breakfast meetings to conferences with thousands of people in an arena - God has shown His faithfulness to me through the teaching of His Word.

Through the many different relationships God has blessed me with, He has shown Himself faithful in how He helps and sustains me through the gift of His people.  In the podcast, I am planning to name names.  I know the phrase often has a negative connotation, but in this case, I mean I plan to mention many different people who have been a blessing, a help, and an encouragement to me.
DISCLAIMER:  The people I mention in the podcast are in no way an exhaustive, complete list.  

As I was musing about ministry, I was reminded that ministry is about God-glorifying, personal relationships.
And I am so thankful for all the relationships God has blessed me with.

The section above this line was written before the interview.

-----------------

The section under this line was written after the interview.

Posts

• Open Letter to Those In Ministry Who Are Struggling - drodgersjr.blogspot.com/2019/05/a-letter-to-those-in-ministry-who-are.html
• My Father-In-Law Was Not Normal - drodgersjr.blogspot.com/2025/12/my-father-in-law-was-not-normal.html
• Favorite Gospel Primer Entry - drodgersjr.blogspot.com/2017/05/favorite-gospel-primer-entry.html

Books

• Gospel Primer Review - www.thegospelcoalition.org/themelios/review/a-gospel-primer-for-christians-learning-to-see-the-glories-of-gods-love/

Teaching and Serving Helps

A couple of lessons ago, we discussed essentials for disciplemaking. This was the list.

• The Gospel
• The Holy Spirit 
• The Word of God
• The People of God
• Prayer 
• Time

The Trellis and The Vine provides a one-sentence explanation of what disciples are.

Disciples are made by the persevering proclamation of the Word of God by the people of God in prayerful dependence on the Spirit of God

This post will highlight two things. 
One of them is the last essential on the list - time. 
The other is not on the list - programs of men, even godly men.

These two highlights are not more important.  They are being highlighted because they are often overlooked and confused.

Programs of Men are not listed because discipleship is about the people of God speaking the Word of God into the lives of others.  

Here is an interesting modern-day parable in the article Five Reasons We Don't Disciple - Part 3

A young man walked into a Christian bookstore in Chicago and asked where the bumper stickers were.  The assistant said, "What kind are you looking for?  The man said, I'd like to buy a fish sticker."  The assistant said, "Oh, I'm afraid we've sold out of those."  To which the man responded, "HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO EVANGELIZE WITHOUT FISH STICKERS?" 

As Western evangelicals, we have become increasingly reliant on courses, programs, techniques, and methodologies to do the work of evangelism and discipleship. 

The article later states that the church often has the following mindset.

"HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO DISCIPLE WITHOUT A NEW PROGRAM?"  

Brothers and sisters, discipleship is possible without programs.  Jesus wrote a really good book about it.

Ministry is NOT programs or events planned to keep people busy and entertained.
Ministry is saints in motion towards Christlikeness for the glory of God.  (from Praying Church by Paul Miller).
The formal ministries (i.e., programs and scheduled events) of the church are meant to help people grow in godliness, connect with people, and help others do the same.

Children's Ministry, Student Ministry, Women's Ministry, Men's Ministry, Bible Studies, and ACE classes provide connection and equipping points for the church to do the work of the ministry every day of the week.

First Corinthians 15:58 serves as a good reminder of the second focus point of this post - time.

There is always the aspect of waiting on and working for the Lord in teaching, serving, and ministering to one another.

"Therefore, my beloved brothers, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that in the Lord your labor is not in vain."  1 Corinthians 15:58.

The Lord is the one who ultimately does the work. If you are working "in the Lord," that work is not done "in vain."  Prayerfully dependent work will bring glory to God. 

The Trellis and The Vine quote at the beginning of this post refers to "persevering proclamation."  This is a major part of Gospel ministry and disciplemaking.   

In speaking about growth and change, John Newton said, "A Christian is not of hasty growth, like a mushroom, but rather like the oak, the progress of which is hardly perceptible but in time becomes a deep-rooted tree."

From the Lead video below.
"There is nothing more important for a leadership community than to be constantly reminded of the presence, power, promises, and grace of the Redeemer."

Previous Be a Disciple/Make Disciples lessons:

1. Be and Make Introduction - drodgersjr.blogspot.com/2025/12/be-and-make-intro.html
2. Ministry & Missions - drodgersjr.blogspot.com/2025/12/ministry-and-missions.html
3. The Bible and Disciple-making - drodgersjr.blogspot.com/2026/01/bible-and-disciplemaking.html
4. Prayer and Disciple-making - drodgersjr.blogspot.com/2026/01/prayer-and-disciplemaking.html
5. Time and Productivity - drodgersjr.blogspot.com/2026/01/time-and-productivity.html
6. Men and Local Church Ministry - drodgersjr.blogspot.com/2026/01/men-and-local-church-ministry.html
7. Women and Local Church Ministry - drodgersjr.blogspot.com/2026/02/women-and-local-church-ministry.html
8. Congregation, Elders, Deacons, and Deaconesses -  drodgersjr.blogspot.com/2026/02/congregation-elders-deacons-and.html

Congregation, Elders, Deacons, and Deaconesses

 Sorry for the delay in posting the information here.

The January 25th lesson was on women and local church ministry.
The February 1st lesson was on men and local church ministry.
Last week's lesson was on Congregation, Elders, Deacons, and Deaconesses.

Here are some of the notes for this last lesson.

Complementarianism  

Men and women are equal in value and dignity, yet distinctive in responsibilities and roles in the church and home. 

Egalitarianism 

Men and women are equal in value and dignity, and there are no differences in their roles in the church and home.

During the class time, one of the topics we talked about was women and their teaching roles in the church.  This is a statement TBC's elders wrote several years ago.  If you would like a copy of the metrics referred to in the statement, message me.

“In an effort to maximize the teaching opportunities of women within the congregation while maintaining fidelity to the biblical passages cited in the Danvers Statement, the Elders of Trinity Baptist Church have created [these] metrics above to assist in evaluating teaching opportunities for women in cases where men will be the recipients of the teaching. Assessments will be based upon weighing each of the criteria above and determining whether, on balance, the Elders believe a given teaching venue is biblically appropriate. No one metric will be considered dispositive; however, for most of the metrics, the teaching opportunity should fall somewhere on the left side of the arrow.”

The basic goal of the church is God’s Glory and the Good of others for God’s Glory

How do these goals show themselves in the people of the church?

Every member should glorify God. 
Some of the ways this happens are by 
pursuing  Biblical truth and loving others as Christ loved you
and
working for the good of others through evangelism and service.

The elders of Trinity are part of the every-member ministry of Trinity and specifically are leaders and examples of pursuing Biblical truth

The deacons of Trinity are also part of the church's every-member ministry and, specifically, are examples and mobilizers of the church's service ministries.  They help the elders do the work of the ministry.

The deaconesses are also part of the every-member ministry and an example of women helping the elders.

Here are some things the church must remember to do better at discipleship.

Be prayerful  

Dependence on God means seeking his will from the beginning and depending on him for strength and patience.  Doing all of this, knowing that he will be doing things in both the one discipling and the one being disciple d .  

Be Christ-centered.  

Discipleship doesn’t just look to Jesus as the model of discipleship.  Jesus is the one we need to point people to.  Because of this, a significant part of discipleship is helping others see the necessity for hoping in Jesus, fighting self-reliance, and repenting of sin.  

Be Biblical

While there are many helpful discipleship plans and curricula, the Bible must be the focus.  If you are discipling someone, you need to be in the Word for your own spiritual health and for the one you are disciplining.  If you are being discipled, you must understand that your spiritual health depends on being in the Word.  Meeting with a friend to talk about life is not enough.  Bible reading should be a personal discipline for a true disciple.

Be intentional.    

Spiritual growth does not happen accidentally or without thought.  Everyone involved in the discipleship process must be intentional.  

Parents need to intentionally disciple their children.  Make the most of the times God gives you to point your children to Christ.

Those who are mature in the faith need to intentionally look for people to disciple and for people to help them grow. 

Those who desire to grow must intentionally look for people and opportunities that will help them grow. 

Look for Gospel-growth.

Remember, discipleship is about helping people follow Jesus. It can often become focused on many other things, but remember, it is about Jesus!

With all of these things in mind, how can we pray for Trinity Baptist Church? 

• Pray for the congregation. Use your church directory as a prayer guide.
• Pray for the elders - Pray that you would live out the teaching they are giving
• Pray for the deacons & deaconesses - Pray that you would know who to help them serve others
• EVERYONE, pray for Christ-centered, Biblical, Intentional gospel-growth and wisdom in life

This Week's Lead Principle from Paul Tripp - IDENTITY

Previous Be a Disciple/Make Disciples lessons:

1. Be and Make Introduction - drodgersjr.blogspot.com/2025/12/be-and-make-intro.html
2. Ministry & Missions - drodgersjr.blogspot.com/2025/12/ministry-and-missions.html
3. The Bible and Disciplemaking - drodgersjr.blogspot.com/2026/01/bible-and-disciplemaking.html
4. Prayer and Disciplemaking - drodgersjr.blogspot.com/2026/01/prayer-and-disciplemaking.html
5. Time and Productivity - drodgersjr.blogspot.com/2026/01/time-and-productivity.html
6. Men and Local Church Ministry - drodgersjr.blogspot.com/2026/01/men-and-local-church-ministry.html
7. Women and Local Church Ministry - drodgersjr.blogspot.com/2026/02/women-and-local-church-ministry.html

Women and Local Church Ministry

DISCLAIMER:  While I believe this post reflects Trinity Baptist Church's position, this post was written by me (Dave) in preparation for and reflection on a class on Women and Local Church Ministry preparation and personal study.  This is not an official position paper of Trinity Baptist Church.

In thinking through this issue, and any issue, we must begin with what God says in His Word.

1 Corinthians 12:14 - 20

14 For the body does not consist of one member but of many. 15 If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body. 16 And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would be the sense of hearing? If the whole body were an ear, where would be the sense of smell? 18 But as it is, God arranged the members in the body, each one of them, as he chose. 19 If all were a single member, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts, yet one body.

GOD'S DESIGN:  This passage reminds us of the diverse gifts and people in the Body of Christ.  As we think about men and women in the church, think about these truths: "God arranged the members in the body, each one of them, as he chose," and "There are many parts, yet one body."  Let's live in Biblical community.

Genesis 3:16b

Your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.”

SIN'S IMPACT:  Because of sin,  there are consequences, and 3:16b contains two of them.  First, this "desire" is not love or intimacy.  John MacArthur writes, " That's certainly not a punishment, and that is something God gave them before the Fall.  How else could He say, 'Be fruitful and multiply,' if they already weren't prepared to engage in that kind of relationship?"  The woman will desire the God-given leadership role of the man.  Also, "he shall rule over" is not making the God-created role in Genesis 2 bad.  The broken consequence is that man will tyrannically crush the woman with selfish leadership when he should be leading in a Christ-like, saving way.  In the context of this verse, the words "desire" and "rule" are not good.

This broken relationship in Genesis 3:16b fleshes itself out in homes and in the church.  In the book Women's Ministry in the Local Church, Ligonier Duncan and Susan Hunt show how women's ministry in the church should model the Biblical roles of men and women.

Foundational Themes for women's ministry.

• The Gospel -  "Jesus Christ, not womanhood or the women's ministry, must be the reference point."
• Truth - Today, people refer to "your" truth and "my" truth.  There is God's truth (and there are no quotation marks around God).  In Genesis 3, the serpent questioned God's truth and helped Adam and Eve do the same.
• Sound Doctrine - A biblical approach to women's ministry, and every ministry in the church, must be rooted in biblical doctrine.  Two specific areas of doctrine that need careful attention are anthropology (the study of man) and ecclesiology (the study of the church).  
• Discipleship - Discipleship is growing disciples helping other disciples grow.
• Covenant of Grace - This is "sovereignly initiated," "restorative," "relational," "compassionate," "corporate," and "generational."

Here are some verses to consider:

• 1 Timothy 2:9 - 15 addresses submission
• 1 Timothy 3:11 addresses compassion
• 1 Timothy 5 - addresses community.  "Community that is based on grace."  This is not based on geography, interests, or age.
• Titus 2 addresses discipleship.  "Truth is to be in the context of a relationship." 
• 2 Timothy 1:5; 3:14-17 addresses the importance and necessity of Scripture

Some takeaways.

Remember, 1 Thessalonians 5:11

Encourage one another and build one another up.

Two terms, complementarianism and egalitarianism, are views about the relationship between men and women in the family and the church.

Complementarian - complement one another 

• Men and women are equal in value and dignity, distinctive in responsibilities and roles in the church and home

Egalitarian

• Men and women are equal in value and dignity, and there are no distinctions in their roles in the church and home.

In next week's class, we will talk about what complementarianism looks like at Trinity Baptist Church in the lesson on Elders, Deacons, and the Congregation.

* * * * ADDITIONAL RESOURCES * * * *

Right Desires adapted from The Excellent Wife

1. Know God’s Word and Obey it
2. Delight in God
3. Seek Him with all my heart
4. Be pleasing to Him regardless of my circumstances
5. Cultivate an attitude of joy and gratitude in what God is doing in my life, no matter what [others] do
6. Have joy in God deciding how my life and circumstances can glorify Him the most, that He can use me for His glory

Paul Tripp's Principle 7:  SERVANTS from the book Lead

From the class notes sheet:

• The Excellent Wife by Martha Peace
• How Can Women Thrive in the Local Church by Keri Folmar
• Priscilla Talk podcast - www.9marks.org/podcast/priscilla-talk
• Church  Ministries conference - grchurchministriesconference.com/

Previous Be a Disciple/Make Disciples lessons:

1. Be and Make Introduction - drodgersjr.blogspot.com/2025/12/be-and-make-intro.html
2. Ministry & Missions - drodgersjr.blogspot.com/2025/12/ministry-and-missions.html
3. The Bible and Disciplemaking - drodgersjr.blogspot.com/2026/01/bible-and-disciplemaking.html
4. Prayer and Disciplemaking - drodgersjr.blogspot.com/2026/01/prayer-and-disciplemaking.html
5. Time and Productivity - drodgersjr.blogspot.com/2026/01/time-and-productivity.html
6. Men and Local Church Ministry - drodgersjr.blogspot.com/2026/01/men-and-local-church-ministry.html